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* //to Garnet R Chaney// - You are attaching a set of interpretations as truth. The Bible, church, ordination, carry a multiplicity of meanings. I have chosen to free myself from the orthodoxy of my upbringing. | * //to Garnet R Chaney// - You are attaching a set of interpretations as truth. The Bible, church, ordination, carry a multiplicity of meanings. I have chosen to free myself from the orthodoxy of my upbringing. | ||
- | ===== Meme spin on how the list of books in the Bible was arrived at ===== | + | I wrote back: |
+ | * I now realize I think I misread your original word as saying " | ||
- | Someone else responded with a meme on "How You Got Your Bible", | ||
- | - Constantine and his bishops VOTED a bunch of books AS THE WORD OF GOD (325 AD) // | ||
- | - They pick and chose what they want in the bible. Then burn all other pre-christian document that proved the religion was fictitious. (391 AD) //(Black Ankhwakening)// | ||
- | - In order to make the religion popular they kill everyone who dont agree with the new religion and made laws prohibiting any public talk about religion. It was illegal to disagree with the church. (380 AD) | ||
- | - But today christians running around with the bible don't know that what they are believing in was purposefully planned out for them to believe by men. | ||
- | ==== How I responded | + | Someone else responded with [[Meme |
- | + | ||
- | That wasn't quite how the process of deciding on canonicity was described in Bruce Metzger' | + | |
- | + | ||
- | This was my initial response: | + | |
- | + | ||
- | * OK, that is one way to view what happened at the Council of Nicea. (It is interesting the meme doesnt mention the commonly accepted name of that council.) "And his bishops" | + | |
- | + | ||
- | * Those are some rather serious issues just in the first paragraph of this meme. Gives me a very cautious view of the rest of the assertions. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | * Dr. Bruce Metzger in his textbooks on canonicity also point out that the council had to deal with an incredible number of clearly counterfeit documents that were vieing for popularity.The council had to throw out documents with clearly questionable pedigree. Interestingly, | + | |
- | * Some of the 'fake news' of the day does survive to the present day. (So it wasn't actually all burned up, another strike against the meme's claims). | + | |
- | * If there was an abundance of frauds, it seems God needed to have just a council to weed things out, made of men to work through, just like God worked through men to write the books. It seems reasonable that God would do such, it makes no sense to give the inspiration, | + | |
- | * The meme might be true, but given the problems I noted in first paragraph, it has the feeling of a conspiracy theory | + | |
- | + | ||
- | It turns out that was not even entirely correct. That is the problem in responding to a meme. However, it did trigger me to do some more research, and I learned more about the process from reputable sources. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | ==== Examining a meme prejudiced against | + | |
- | + | ||
- | + | ||
- | === What was the Happening in A.D. 325 - Council of Nicaea === | + | |
- | + | ||
- | It was during this council that there was a beginning of creating the list of the books in the modern Bible new testament was approved. Encyclopedia Britannica does not list creating an authoritative list of the books of the Bible as one of the achievements of this council. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | According to the international Bible society: | + | |
- | + | ||
- | * "It was actually not until 367 AD that the church father Athanasius first provided the complete listing of the 66 books belonging to the canon." | + | |
- | * He distinguished those from other books that were widely circulated and he noted that those 66 books were the ones, and the only ones, universally accepted. | + | |
- | * "The point is that the formation of the canon did not come all at once like a thunderbolt, | + | |
- | + | ||
- | However they go onto say: | + | |
- | * "Nor is there a single date when we can say that the canon of the New Testament was decided. In the first and second centuries after Christ, many, many writings and epistles were circulating among the Christians. Some of the churches were using books and letters in their services that were definitely spurious. Gradually the need to have a definite list of the inspired Scriptures became apparent. Heretical movements were rising, each one choosing its own selected Scriptures, including such documents as the Gospel of Thomas, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Apocalypse of Peter, and the Epistle of Barnabas." | + | |
- | + | ||
- | * " | + | |
- | + | ||
- | Source: https:// | + | |
- | + | ||
- | + | ||
- | === About the council of Nicaea === | + | |
- | + | ||
- | Alternative Title: First Council of Nicaea | + | |
- | + | ||
- | Council of Nicaea, also called First Council of Nicaea, (325), the first ecumenical council of the Christian church, meeting in ancient Nicaea (now İznik, Turkey). It was called by the emperor Constantine | + | |
- | + | ||
- | Source: https:// | + | |
- | + | ||
- | === what is a Catechumen === | + | |
- | + | ||
- | From the encyclopedia Britannica: | + | |
- | + | ||
- | " | + | |
- | + | ||
- | Source: https:// | + | |
- | + | ||
- | CITE | + | |
- | Contributor: | + | |
- | The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica | + | |
- | Article Title: | + | |
- | Catechumen | + | |
- | Website Name: | + | |
- | Encyclopædia Britannica | + | |
- | Publisher: | + | |
- | Encyclopædia Britannica, inc. | + | |
- | Date Published: | + | |
- | July 29, 2013 | + | |
- | URL: | + | |
- | https:// | + | |
- | Access Date: | + | |
- | June 12, 2019 | + | |