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editorials:futility_inherent_in_do-it-yourself_religion_what_s_the_point [2019/06/12 08:10] adminuser created |
editorials:futility_inherent_in_do-it-yourself_religion_what_s_the_point [2019/06/12 12:23] (current) |
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A friend who styles himself as " | A friend who styles himself as " | ||
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+ | //I now think I initially misread the word as persuasive. That is probably what baited my confusion and response.// | ||
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+ | Here is the meme he posted, which was just the following text without a picture: | ||
* "The relationship with Jesus sold to people mirrors that of a relationship with an abusive partner, The same mental tricks are used. You're nothing without me, you aren't worthy of my love, you need me to be whole, I can save you, only I know what you need, you must submit to me, if you leave me there will be hell to pay. It's a scam, and an obvious one to a thinking mind." | * "The relationship with Jesus sold to people mirrors that of a relationship with an abusive partner, The same mental tricks are used. You're nothing without me, you aren't worthy of my love, you need me to be whole, I can save you, only I know what you need, you must submit to me, if you leave me there will be hell to pay. It's a scam, and an obvious one to a thinking mind." | ||
- | I had saw another posting when responding to a thought about heaven, it seemed to me as if he was lukewarm on the idea of heaven. | + | I had saw another posting when responding to a thought about heaven, it seemed to me as if he was lukewarm on the idea of heaven. |
+ | |||
+ | So I wrote: | ||
* The most negative possible spin on so many positive things. Oi vey! If all that is true and all there is to it, why bother at all with bible, reverend, church etc.? You are entirely free, if God, Jesus, and the Bible really is this terrible to ignore them, just have a good life now, and who cares about the after.... Its kinda like refusing to breath because air is polluted. But even that doesnt do justice to this brand of twist.... | * The most negative possible spin on so many positive things. Oi vey! If all that is true and all there is to it, why bother at all with bible, reverend, church etc.? You are entirely free, if God, Jesus, and the Bible really is this terrible to ignore them, just have a good life now, and who cares about the after.... Its kinda like refusing to breath because air is polluted. But even that doesnt do justice to this brand of twist.... | ||
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* But I was kinda floored the other day to see you have a " | * But I was kinda floored the other day to see you have a " | ||
+ | My friend wrote back: | ||
+ | * //to Garnet R Chaney// - You are attaching a set of interpretations as truth. The Bible, church, ordination, carry a multiplicity of meanings. I have chosen to free myself from the orthodoxy of my upbringing. | ||
- | ===== Meme spin on how the list of books in the Bible was arrived at ===== | + | I wrote back: |
- | + | | |
- | Someone else responded with a meme on "How You Got Your Bible", | + | |
- | | + | |
- | - They pick and chose what they want in the bible. Then burn all other pre-christian document that proved the religion was fictitious. (391 AD) //(Black Ankhwakening)// | + | |
- | - In order to make the religion popular they kill everyone who dont agree with the new religion and made laws prohibiting any public talk about religion. It was illegal to disagree with the church. (380 AD) | + | |
- | - But today christians running around with the bible don't know that what they are believing in was purposefully planned out for them to believe by men. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | ==== How I responded initially ==== | + | |
- | + | ||
- | That wasn't quite how the process of deciding on canonicity was described in Bruce Metzger' | + | |
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- | This was my initial response: | + | |
- | + | ||
- | * OK, that is one way to view what happened at the Council of Nicea. (It is interesting the meme doesnt mention the commonly accepted name of that council.) | + | |
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- | * Those are some rather serious issues just in the first paragraph of this meme. Gives me a very cautious view of the rest of the assertions. | + | |
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- | * Dr. Bruce Metzger in his textbooks on canonicity also point out that the council had to deal with an incredible number of clearly counterfeit documents that were vieing for popularity.The council had to throw out documents with clearly questionable pedigree. Interestingly, they also didnt agree very well with well accepted documents | + | |
- | * Some of the 'fake news' of the day does survive to the present day. (So it wasn't actually all burned up, another strike against the meme's claims). | + | |
- | * If there was an abundance of frauds, it seems God needed to have just a council to weed things out, made of men to work through, just like God worked through men to write the books. It seems reasonable that God would do such, it makes no sense to give the inspiration, | + | |
- | * The meme might be true, but given the problems | + | |
- | + | ||
- | It turns out that was not even entirely correct. That is the problem in responding to a meme. However, it did trigger me to do some more research, and I learned more about the process from reputable sources. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | ==== Examining a meme prejudiced against how the modern list of books in the Bible was created ==== | + | |
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- | === What was the Happening in A.D. 325 - Council of Nicaea === | + | |
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- | It was during this council that there was a beginning of creating the list of the books in the modern Bible new testament was approved. Encyclopedia Britannica does not list creating an authoritative list of the books of the Bible as one of the achievements of this council. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | According to the international Bible society: | + | |
- | + | ||
- | * "It was actually not until 367 AD that the church father Athanasius first provided the complete listing of the 66 books belonging to the canon." | + | |
- | * He distinguished those from other books that were widely circulated and he noted that those 66 books were the ones, and the only ones, universally accepted. | + | |
- | * "The point is that the formation of the canon did not come all at once like a thunderbolt, | + | |
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- | However they go onto say: | + | |
- | * "Nor is there a single date when we can say that the canon of the New Testament was decided. In the first and second centuries after Christ, many, many writings and epistles were circulating among the Christians. Some of the churches were using books and letters in their services that were definitely spurious. Gradually the need to have a definite list of the inspired Scriptures became apparent. Heretical movements were rising, each one choosing its own selected Scriptures, including such documents as the Gospel of Thomas, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Apocalypse of Peter, and the Epistle of Barnabas." | + | |
- | + | ||
- | * " | + | |
- | + | ||
- | Source: https:// | + | |
- | + | ||
- | + | ||
- | === About the council of Nicaea === | + | |
- | + | ||
- | Alternative Title: First Council of Nicaea | + | |
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- | Council of Nicaea, also called First Council of Nicaea, (325), the first ecumenical council of the Christian church, meeting in ancient Nicaea (now İznik, Turkey). It was called by the emperor Constantine I, an unbaptized catechumen, who presided over the opening session and took part in the discussions. He hoped a general council of the church would solve the problem created in the Eastern church by Arianism, a heresy first proposed by Arius of Alexandria that affirmed that Christ is not divine but a created being. Pope Sylvester I did not attend the council but was represented by legates. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | Source: https:// | + | |
- | + | ||
- | === what is a Catechumen === | + | |
- | + | ||
- | From the encyclopedia Britannica: | + | |
- | + | ||
- | " | + | |
- | Source: https:// | ||
- | CITE | + | Someone else responded with [[Meme spin on how the list of books in the Bible was arrived at]]. I moved that discussion to another page. |
- | Contributor: | + | |
- | The Editors | + | |
- | Article Title: | + | |
- | Catechumen | + | |
- | Website Name: | + | |
- | Encyclopædia Britannica | + | |
- | Publisher: | + | |
- | Encyclopædia Britannica, inc. | + | |
- | Date Published: | + | |
- | July 29, 2013 | + | |
- | URL: | + | |
- | https://www.britannica.com/ | + | |
- | Access Date: | + | |
- | June 12, 2019 | + | |